What is fly fishing to Jimmy B right now?

Fly fishing for me until recently was a big deep dive into natives, specifically Murray Cod, more specifically big impoundment dwelling Murray Cod on fly. This pursuit consumed me. Among all the different avenues I have I've travelled down in the past it is the one that has consumed me the most. 

However I have now started my own guiding business Snowy Valleys Fly Fishing. This has been much of my focus at the moment. We managed to get a pretty red hot Northwest River Supplies (NRS) raft in from the States and are now able to run guided full day, and half day, drift boat sessions down the Tumut and Swampy Plains rivers. Drifting these big tail races is such an epic way to fish. Super comfy and massively effective. We also run days on foot through the entire Snowy Mountains region. After three years of solid rain the fishing up there is just about as good as it is ever going to get.

This Murray Cod on fly thing that has grabbed you really is incredible. The whole experience of getting out there at night, pitch black darkness, whacking banks, finding these fish, learning where these fish areis amazing. Talking to you it feels that additional experience is just as much part of the package of fly fishing for you right now as the fish itself is.

Yes, the fish themselves, which are incredible animals, are awesome, but yes, the journey of trying to catch them is just as good. Trying to work something out of this scale is a captivating challenge. Be it a Tusky (blue bone Tusk fish) on a sand flat, a Barra in a dam or for trout on a river - whatever it may be, that for me is what grabs me and demands my 100% focus and commitment.

 It’s just something that has really has captivated me and the fish there, the fish are super special, They are huge, but even that even the little Murray Cod are super cool. 

You’ve got this amazing story with so many different chapters, that all interlink with each other, but I have seen how this nature of commitment has been with you from day one, you talk about getting experience to go overseas and fly fish,how hard is it to go to a different country, a different fishery and then try to workout those rivers?

Google Translate becomes a vital tool!  But also social media, I’ve been a massive fan of it. In the south of France, there is a particular river, Isle la Sorgue, and they have the Danica mayfly, some of the biggest mayflies you’ll ever see and they do their thing at the beginning of the trout season, our spring, much like back home in Tassie. The best of the mayfly hatches, in my opinion, and as they come on, they come on hard. These mayflies look like Kozi’s, maybe even bigger, they are huge. When they start popping off, they blanket hatch, covering the whole town. I got in contact with a guy called Phil (@aurelienbrb) through social media and saw he was posting photos of a number of fish. We put it all together and made time to go and meet, and he gave me the 101 on how to break down the river and taught me how to fish the French technique. He spoke good enough English, bridging the gap on my terrible French, and we had enough to get by. He sort of gave me the chip-in for how to fish the area. With Phil’s help, this technique opened the door to a new species for me as well, the Grayling.

The river itself comes out of the bottom of the Alps, a spring that’s fed by alpine runoff and upwells as the primary source of flow for the river.  Back in the day, Jacques Cousteau even had a crack at reaching the bottom. It's known as ‘the Source’, a cave-like hole in the wall, gin-clear, freezing cold, and supports these Grayling and the Browns.

 So this guy taught me this French long line nymphing technique, size 18 flies with huge tungsten beads. It was tricky because you had to cut through the water column and it is 18 foot leaders that you need to accurately cast, but good fun when you get it right. 

You had to line the fish up, put it well in front and get it down, very visual nymphing.  Ideally, you’d present to the side of a fish so that you can positively see it move towards and eat the fly.

So that was an absolute mind boggle to try and get my head around that, back home we deal with all kinds of long leaders, generally from a boat and casting downwind but trying to slug this little beaded nymph upstream and visually detect the take was next level for me then.

Do you remember when you did stick your first reasonable one?

I do mate yes, it was gorgeous. We’d been fishing the hatch on a particular section of the river and I had only been here once before with the guy, and I crossed over the river to this little anabranch that came off the side of the main flow.  I was just coming up to where we fished prior and it just appeared… I sighted a half-decent fish out of the shadows, it would fade in and out of a patch of sun, then duck back into the shadows again. I did the universal ‘I've just seen a fish’ reaction, the whole body just freezes. So I had a size 14 hares ear gold pattern on - which I still have in my box, it was a locally tied number. 

Flies in hand, I waited for the fish to come back around, it was cutting a bit of a lap, he was just picking up the nymphs, the duns that were sort of hatching but not strong yet, and he was mopping up the nymphs that were coming through. I put this put this little one up in front, and he sort of moved to it but veered off.  ‘Ah bugger, wasn’t it’. I pulled back out of the water and pick the fly back to my hand, I thought I would make a change because he’s seen it but didn’t react. I put on this huge size 10 number that the local store sold me.

Position assumed again, fish comes back into view and I put this fly back in front of him and he comes to it, mouth flared, I strike and come up tight! All of it is so visual, such an incredible eat. For me this was the one that sticks out, such a nice moment, so memorable and such an experience to have on the other side of the world.

What about combining the travel and fly fishing experiences? How conducive is it to really do both?

So easy, and really under appreciated, particularly in Europe. You’ll be in these ancient little northern Italian towns, at the foot of the alps, cruising around enjoying the sights, then fishing where you can, and everyone will ask “Why the hell are you here, and fly fishing?”. “Why is this foreigner coming to our town that's not renowned for anything?” But there’s a river in close proximity, they say it has trout in it, you know. I just don’t think many people do it, but it’s so special and such a good way to kill two birds with one stone. 

The scenery is incredible there as well, it’s the touristy stuff through the towns, and all great fly fishing destinations, but it’s the scenery that blows you away. 

The Alps are amazing and have mountains which are up to 16,000 feet high. Some of my most enjoyable adventures involved doing Google research, pouring over maps and translations, booking a hotel online, arranging for a rental car, plotting the course on to drive out there, and obtaining the necessary permits. Trying to deal with this in Italy was quite the ordeal. These permits weren't just for fishing; they covered the privatized waterways. You go through all these hoops, and then you arrive in these towns, which have been there for thousands of years, with heritage from Roman times. It's a sight to behold, just crazy.

There's a bonus in that. You've got the scenery, the architecture, the food, and the people,and then on top of that, you go fishing. 

Honestly, it is absolutely gorgeous. People go on euro-trip holidays, for that stuff. And then you can tack on fly fishing. Tuscany was another fantastic adventure and one I made regularly once finding out how good it was. There’s a tailwater called “Fume Tanaro”, which gets blanket hatches of blue wing olives, amazing fishing and the township there, Sansepolcro is unbelievable. The village centre is encapsulated in stonewalls, old cobblestone paths, and steeped in history.

So, the key takeaway, next euro summer trip anyone does, take a fly rod with you?

 Absolutely, the popular six-piece travel rods are perfect for this. Get yourself one, and if you’re lucky enough to get over there take the rod and go take in the sights, and fishing of course!

What about guides? Does getting a guide where you can help fast-track the learning of a foreign fishery?
Not only does it fast-track you getting up to speed on a river, but it’s also a worldly experience. I had two really memorable guided days. 

Fishing in Corsica, one of the islands out in the Mediterranean. I’ll be honest, they're definitely not the biggest brown trout, but it’s the experience of going through the process in such an amazing part of the world.  Helps they were caught on a dry fly! Funny though one of the only places I’ve booked a guide and the guide ends up doing more fishing than the client! 

 The other one was Trentino, in Italy, unforeseen beauty, but the guided days there were something else. Fishing in the morning, an incredible experience in its own right.  Then for lunch you go to the local riverside restaurant, and the owner, who the guide knows, comes out because you're a unique customerand you get the royal treatment. The full spread. Incredible food, wine, it's a full-scale event. You don’t want to go back out fishing!

 What about you finished up abroad, what happened when you got home?

So coming back from work in Indonesia, I wanted to get back into the fishing industry again, and I couldn't initially get the job that I wanted. I was then offered a position on a 40ft game boat, based in Airlie Beach and skippered by a legend of a guy called Ashley Matthews. We did the reef side of things, we bottom bashed for table fish, popped for GT’s and also took the boat north for the heavy tackle season chasing giant black marlin off Cooktown and Cairns. All the fun tropical saltwater stuff.

 Moving up there also coincided with meeting Matty Scholes (@pelagicpersuit), yet again through social media. That came about from going to a pub with a mate, and it was industry night and flat out busy, there was one table left with some free seats, went up to the table with my mate, and said, "Do you mind if we sit here?".  We went through the small talk as it came up across the table. "What do you do for work?” ”I work and fishing boat here”. One thing goes to another, then fly fishing is mentioned. “You’ll never believe what we've been up to” they said, then showed me footage of them chasing Tusk fish on fly from earlier that day. Lee Younan and Matty Scholes, absolute legends. So that hit off a relationship there.

That’s the fly fishing community though, its great in that you get wrapped up in it no matter where you are.

Yeah it allowed me to find my feet and start running some of my own missions. I ended up getting my own small boat, which was not too bad for what it was, but it enabled me to go and fish for these legendary impoundment Barra. When catching a quality fish like Barra, you hook up on one and that thing, is out of the water, tail walking away from the boat headed for the sunset any line that you've got is gone while that fish is dancing to try and get off. 

We used to roll these flies past their nose and they turn on it and you'd be able to get them to bow wave behind the fly chasing it. You’d get it about 10-20 ft off the boat and then you slow it down a fraction and they come and suck it in and BANG, or if they lose interest you stop and you bring them back by giving the fly a couple of twitches and then they hit swivel back, BANG. Its awesome fun.

This was the light bulb moment, I got a nice one through the process. Got it up, it threw up some bait, straight on the deck of the boat. The main forage was bony bream and I’d found a fly that sort of worked, but in hindsight, it wasn't the right imitation. I had a couple of flies that a client from the Wessels had given me, which I hadn't used at all. These flies had exactly the same profile and size of the Bony’s, So I tied one on, and the first fish I put it to, no questions asked, came straight over and sucked it in immediately. Turns out these were tied on a 2/0 and didn't have enough hook. I missed the first one, missed second one. Nailed the third one. So, back to the vice we go that night and learn how to tie this fly and replicate the profile of the bait..

I tied a couple up on 4/0s and 6/0s, which is massively overdressed, but all we need to do is get it in front of their face and move it, and they come in. 

I’m picturing match the hatch style fishing on Proserpine for barramundi?

Absolutely, it’s not just for trout that you need to replicate the hatch, that is the case across the sport. You do it when back home in Tassie or here on the river. You know the particular insect that you want. You can't always buy it. So, you get on the vise and start tying and problem-solving.

 Just through the process of elimination of going through it all, and I guess this is what I love about fly fishing, from tying bait patterns for Barra, mayflies for trout or crabs for tuskies - it is one of the most rewarding parts of fly fishing.

You have complete control over that and it serves as another element of achievement. When you go through that problem-solving and process refinement, how do you get that last little percent? 

That's it. Trial and error, and be prepared for lots of iterations. Now, back here in Tumut, fishing Blowering Dam for meter cod, I am able to take an idea of someone's patent, or maybe it's something internally my brains cooked up. But it's generally, following someone else's idea but giving it a unique twist, which is the joy of fly fishing. It’s just like fly fishing for trout or tying trout flies. If you don't like a royal wulff with a red body, well then you put on a yellow body or you lengthen the tail, all minute changes. This cod fly tying though is on a grand scale, my waste container from discarded tying material could be used to tie 2 or 3 dozen nymphs. But I can take these massive flies from the vise and go and put it out to a fish that evening. I am able to go out there with a variety of flies, I can test the range. If I didn't like how the fish responded to a fly I can tweak it. I can change it. I can add more points here, can subtract, can add a stinger hook, an action wiggly tail, add weight, add a rattle. I can make it ridiculously bulky out of natural fibres and have a low cast weight, or I can make it bulky with synthetic fibers and make for and easier tie that’s more consistent, they both have their own attributes. 

 But what does the fly fishing for Cod journey actually entail, particularly in winter on Blowering dam, what does it take?

It’s tough, but intoxicating. I had to pour myself into it with full commitment. I took my boat to work, so I could leave straight from work to the boat ramp and make the most of the daylight. Particularly during winter with limited daylight. This was to use the light to get my whiskers about me, understand the lay of the land out on the Dam in daylight. I was also really able to cash in 10 days off in a row.  I was up there every day, using the daylight to wrap my head around what’s going on up there. The time of day was not great for fishing, but turns out it was a prudent investment of time to understand the layout of the dam. 

By understanding the structure of the dam and finding productive banks to work, I was able to start moving around really efficiently during dark, during the times when cod are most active and likely to eat a fly. As it stands, I’ve probably done about 160 sessions up there since this time last year. Yeah, that's a lot of time, but I am very lucky to live so close and to fish there somewhere between two and five days a week. The amount of time I've managed to spend there takes some people a lifetime to achieve. How many weekends a year can you drive down from Sydney? Increasingly, it's a challenge to make it worthwhile with the cost of money and petrol, among other things. So, I thought, why not learn and help myself? I saw it as an opportunity and something I had to invest in and take on.

Fly fishing for cod at Blowering Dam, especially during the winter, is a unique experience. It's somewhat easier to fish during low light periods, like dawn and dusk. I tried fishing before work once, but it didn't work out because I felt rushed. So, my prime fishing time became after work. On weekends, I could fish for longer durations. I'd go up on Friday night, fish through the morning say 2-3am and then buzz home get some sleep and be back out there 4-5pm in the afternoon the next day.  That's the general routine; it's an intense experience.

There are a couple of approaches. I initially started blind fishing, systematically casting and retrieving along the banks. Cast, after cast, after cast, along the banks, stripping back, bank after bank. Searching. Systemic, methodical, but repetitive. It was a slog, but it worked, and I managed to hook a number of cod.

But I've progressed and now use live technology for sight fishing in the dark. It works really well.  It’s visual. Putting your eyes on these fish reaches down into you and just grabs you. 

I’m internally analogizing my experience to spotting a brown trout on a small river, but seeing it on a screen.  The thrill of sight fishing in the dark is like no other.

It is exhilarating to the enth degree, you see a shape appear on the screen in the pitch-black darkness, launching up off the bottom to hit your fly. Heart in the mouth kind of stuff. It's a three-dimensional experience, and the adrenaline is real. The fish can be slow, but when they charge, it's slow-motion chaos, and you're seeing it happen in real-time on your screen. Even the ones that don’t hit your fly, the ones tracking your fly in, riding it back to the boat all the way, I had one the other night do this, followed it in 15-20 meters then turn off it when the fly was literally under the rod tip, man I had the biggest adrenaline dump from watching it on the screen, begging it to eat. I was full-on shaking. Think a massive brown hunting a streamer, a GT locked in a popper, watching it all unfold. Incredible experience and incredibly visual fly fishing. 

What kind of gear and flies do you have to use to catch these guys?

The setup consists of 10-weight rods and 40-pound leader to handle these beasts. When you hook one, it's like being on a rollercoaster. You need to stop these 40-kilogram fish from running into timber, and it's no easy feat.

Traditionally bigger is better. Big streamers imitating bait fish. I've also experimented with fly sizes, creating flies as large as 9 to 15 inches to mimic the cod prey. It started with hitting a few guys up in the know on cod flys, John Everret is the guru, and asking them to triple XL XL XL their biggest flies. The things you have to throw up there  are huge. Size of your forearm. But when you think about it, a cod will eat a duck, they will eat a water dragon, these fish are after big meals, and you just have to chuck something similar. Chris Adams of “beast brushes” has played a massive part in my journey with these fish, his help and suggestions on materials and styles of flies to tie have been priceless -  I thank him very much. 

What happens when you sink a fly into the mouths of one of these meter plus Murray Cod?

These fish are tough, and the fight is intense. Gloves are off, hand to hand combat. You keep that rod tip down and you strip, strip, strip to heave these balls of mass and muscle which are burrowing for the timber, off the bottom. They are so strong, genuine 4 stroke operators, pulling my boat around and towing me along. The ones you get in winter up there generally have a one good, long powerful blast in them, and then you can get hold of them. The summer cod are different story. Dude they go like stink. I had x2 one meter plus cod in one night, January 6 this year, 102cm and 122cm. The first one, 102 cms, gave me an absolute arse kicking, took the fly under the boat and BANG, was down to my reel in seconds. 

The second one, 122cm, I had the fly ticking along the bottom, tracking probably about 1 meter off. As the fly is retrieved back to the boat it lifts up off the bottom to about 4ms depth, and as it comes a tomahawk cruise missile just hoons up with it straight in behind. On the screen I could tell this thing was massive. Tracking it right up to within 2 meters of the boat, the fish finally piles on my fly. Again, fly line gone. Straight away. All the slack stripped up sitting at my feet vanished. This one was different as well.  It came to the boat, then had another run, took the line again, then again wrestled back to the boat, and it went again. It was a lot of back and forth, and something I haven’t really see in winter but dude it was pretty epic to experience with x 2 one meter plus cod in the one night going like stink in summer. 

To break all this down, you’ve got some epic puzzle pieces to a benchmark experience.  

It's incredible, a solid 10 out of 10 exhilarating time, even though it can be really cold, sometimes in negative temperatures. It can be quite unappealing, with wet hands and wet lines. I try to keep warm with possum fur gloves and even bring my Jetboil to make coffee during night sessions. Freeze-dried and Backcountry meals keep me fuelled, and I bring my sleeping bag and mat, setting up a tarp on the boat to sleep in the hull of the boat. I've got a bomb-proof, negative-15-degree sleeping bag that keeps me warm, and I'm as happy as a pig in mud.

Most of all, I love it because it's sight fishing, even in the dark. The thrill of spotting a fish on the screen, interpreting its movements, and presenting the fly is unmatched. It's like solving a puzzle, and when it all comes together, it's incredibly rewarding. 

There is a lot of negativity in the air at the moment regarding this technology in and it is a real shame.  Fishing is a personal experience, and for me, sight fishing is my jam. To be able to sight fish to giant fish in a period of time that you would not be able to is unbeatable. I heard someone say “You saw it first so it doesn’t count” Does this mean all of my achievements throughout fly fishing fall in the same basket? I mean how do you catch a permit on a sand flat, cast to a tuskie over the broken reef, or present a dry to a brown in the western lakes - you have to see them first, right? So why is it any different for me to sink a 12-inch fly down on an 8ips line in the middle of the night and play the game. It is truly beyond me, but I guess opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one!

I love your photography, and I know you enjoy going about it, and I know this 200-600mm new macro lens has opened up all sorts of squirrelly opportunities for you, what does that element bring to the fly fishing experience to you?

Thanks mate, firstly that lens has been epic – it’s taken me closer to anything I have ever been before! 

What I really love photographing is the birds though. Tumut River wetlands is a smorgasbord of fairy wrens, flame robins, its awesome, through a few platypus in there, it’s a cool little opportunity to capture experiences.